Raavad Ratio
Raavad Ratio – 2/8 Strings
String Ratio Rationale
From https://www.tekhelet.com/tying-overview/:
“Raavad and the Aruch, based on the Sifre in Shelach hold that one full string (when folded becomes two of the eight strings) must be Tekhelet (Hasagot, Hilchot Tzitzit 1;6)”
More info about this ratio can be found here: https://www.tekhelet.com/tekhelet-tying-faq/
Who Supports This Ratio
Tying methods used with this ratio
(Note: the GR”A’s string ratio is unclear but due to popularity is included in this list.)
Notable Articles
Hebrew
- במספר חוטי תכלת אם עשה כשיטה אחרת והכרעה במספר החוטין – הרב יצחק ברנד
- חוט תכלת – בראנד, הרב יצחק
- בדין מספר חוטי תכלת וסדר הכריכות והקשירה – בראנד, הרב יצחק
- Tekhelet-Raavad – Gavriel Nahlieli
- Techelet-Strings Girsa – Gabriel Martindale
Short version:
- The Sifri pretty much explicitly states Raavad’s shittah;
- The Beis Yosef/Kesef Mishnah apparently had an incorrect Girsah of the Raavad and assumed that he had the same opinion as Tosafos;
- In absence of a solid mesorah (which obviously no one has in regards to Techeiles), you should use logic to decide the Halacha (instead of Paskening by ethnicity),.
English
Raavad Tying Questions
- How do you explain the Sefer HaChinuch method? And how can he be talking about tying with tekhelet when he says to tie a knot after 3 chulyot, whereas the Gemara states that one should tie on every chulya? It seems that the Chinuch only intended a method for white. The Chinuch’s words are most sparing and thus leave quite a lot of room for interpretation. Your argument (that the Chinuch is not as we currently explain) is based on the Gemara (Men. 38b) in which Rava says to knot every chulya – likshor al kol chulya v’chulya. The fact is that the Gemara is […]
- I am a Baal T’shuvah, with very little Jewish family history. My question regards which tying custom to follow. The one thing I do know is that I wish to follow the Raavad for ratio. I know my family lived in Vienna for a time, which would lead me to the Vilna Gaon, but I’m not sure. My current custom is to tie 7-8-11-13. I was wondering if there was a timeline of when the different customs were written, and which, if any, are considered older than others. Thank you very much I would say that if you are inclined to follow the Ravad method in terms of ratio (1 full blue string per corner) then I would advise you tie like the Vilna Gaon, as he too holds that one should use 1 full blue string per corner. As for the oldest methods, it appears that […]
- I am tying according to the Raavad and I am tying using Raavad’s opinion on how to tie a knot, not a double knot. So without double knots and only tying 7 krichot per chuliya, the entire g’dil ends up being very short. The result is a very short g’dil and a very long anaph. This does not even come close to rav’s shlish-shnei shlish requirement. I read an article on the website talking about the requirement of shlish-shnei shlish. From what I understand there are opinions that the anaph may be lengthened much more than 2/3 of the entire tzitzit. However there were also opinions (like the ramah i think) who state that one should really strive for the shlish-shnei shlish. What should I do if my g’dil is only around 5 cm? I am aware of this problem with the Raavad’s sheeta. The first problem is that you must have a gdil of 4 thumbreadths which according to the minimal opinion comes out to be 8 cm. In order to handle this problem, you could use THICK strings. The other possibility is to use double knots instead of the Raavad knots. […]
- I have been using Raavad strings (1 full blue per corner) to tie the Radzyner method, is this kosher? Also, I use which ever blue string comes to hand to make the windings, is this OK? There is actually nothing halachically “unkosher” about using Raavad strings with the Radzyner tying method. Many view the two issues as independent, that is, the determination of how many strings of blue to use is based on certain considerations versus the determination of how to tie being based on other factors. Of course, there are […]
- I need some clarification about the Ra’avad method of tying tekhelet. I saw the film put out by Ptil Tekhelet and I also have the diagram that is on the website that you did. They do not seem to agree. In the film, they show double knots between chulyot and the chulyot are not all the same number of winds. In your diagram, there is one single cord knot between chulyot and all the chulyot have seven winds. Also, in your diagram the second chulya is all white (though you mention that some alternate blue and white). The film show them all alternating. Which one represents the Ra’avad method? Raavad Knots: In the film (tying video), we show the Raavad being tied with double knots purely out of convenience and we do mention there (if I’m not mistaken) that the knot described by the Raavad is a two-cord twist (like I show in my diagram). Using a double knot is by all means “kosher” […]
- I want to tie tzizit according to the Vilna Gaon with Raavad Techelet. I saw the video on line but my question is with the longer techelet and longer tzizit strings – when you use them as the tying strands they don’t equal out at the end meaning the tzizit are all of different lengths. It looks like I’m doing it wrong. Can you guide me further? What you need to do is take the 4 strings for one corner (2 regular length white, 1 long white and 1 long blue) and line up one side so that when you hold them between your thumb and index finger the four lengths are equal (approximately). Then you will notice that the four ends […]
- I was asked to tie tehelet for someone according to the Rambam (Temani). Your instructions show 3 winds per chulya. However, you state that there is a machloket as to what Rebbe meant by 7 minimum (maximum 13), i.e., chulyot or windings per chulya. You stated that one view of Rebbe is to have 7 (minimum) windings per chulya. To be yotzai Rav Schachter’s view, and taking into account the shamash length, would it be more ‘proper’ if tying according to Rambam (Temani) to have 7 windings in the first chulya & the rest (the other 12 chulyot) with 3 windings each? The machloket is really: Raavad (7 wraps) v. Everyone else (3 wraps). I believe that if one want to be “yotzei” the view of the Raavad, he should wear another begged tied according to the Raavad. But if this is too cumbersome and one wanted to integrate the sheeta of the Rambam along with the sheeta of […]
- If my third chulyah of a Raavad/RNGaon tie is messed up (by loosening twisting etc.) and I had tied my second one with alternating blue white, may I just count the third chulya as the spacer and the second as real, or does the second one have to be the spacer (I assume there is no Taaseh V’lo Min HeAsui by re- designating them)? What about the first or fourth chuliya? The Raavad holds (as opposed to all other Rishonim) that when Rebbi said 3 he was talking chulyot and when he said between 7 and 13, he was talking wraps in the chulyot. And because he wants to keep the five knots so he ends up having an extra “spacer” chulya. Based on this understanding it seems to […]
- In light of the fact that the chuliyot should be similar length (I think that’s the Rosh), does it make sense to tie the last GRA chuliya as 12 winds so that the knots are evenly spaced? It seems to me that 3 winds per chuliyah is just a minumum. On the one hand you are correct that the Rosh likes even windings. On the other hand the 3 wrap requirement per chulya is NOT a minimum but a strict definition (Rebbi in Men. 39a). The reason that you see so many more windings per knot in white tying is because there is no issue […]
- With the regards to the Raavad wrapping… In the non chulya area are there any rules at all? Could I, lets say, wrap 20x – or is there still minimum of 7 and max of 13? The idea of “minimum 7 and maximum 13” applies specifically to chulyot – as stated by Rebbi (Men. 39a). According to the Raavad (see https://www.tekhelet.com/diagrams/RaavadTyingSource.htm), the statement of Rebbi refers to the wraps of the chulyot (as opposed to most Rishonim who understand Rebbi to mean the number of chulyot which are each three wraps). […]
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