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Bottom Line
This exchange frames the Techeiles question as a mesorah problem, not merely a chumra problem.
Richard Wolpoe suggests that newly introduced practices are not automatically disqualified just because they lack precedent; after all, even machine-made tzitzis once had no mesorah. Eliyahu Teitz answers with the key distinction: creating a new practice is not the same as reconstructing a lost one.
That becomes the central point for Techeiles. The question is not simply whether Jews may adopt something new, but whether a broken identification can be restored after the practical mesorah disappeared.
Bottom line: the debate turns on whether lost mesorah can be rebuilt from evidence, or whether the very fact that it was lost places Techeiles in a fundamentally different category from ordinary halachic innovation.
Main Text
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:14:38 +0200
From: “gerstman” <gerstbpg@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Chumros
Regarding the issue brought up by Richard Wolpoe, and with Sukkos just around the corner, with people spending extra money for Mehadrin Arba Minim.
Does my obligation to give Tzedakah to a poor person include an obligation to enable him to do things leMaehadrin i.e. if he can get a Mehadrin Arba Minim at a price 50% higher than the cost of “only” a kosher Arba Minim, do I fulfill my obligation if I only give him enough for a non-Mehadrin Arba Minim?
Or, if Glatt, super-duper Hashkachah chickens costs 50% more than regular chickens, do I have to support his desire to be super Kosher?
I realize that in practice, there is rarely a case where the giver gives directly to the Ani, but, if for example, the Badatz Rabanim would come out with a Psak that a person subsisting on Tzedakah doesn’t need to buy Glatt chickens, then the burden on both the Aniim and the Tzibbur would be less.
On a similar vein, I have a peeve about beggars who come to the door reeking of cigarettes.
Benjie Gerstman
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:16:34 +0200
From: “gerstman” <gerstbpg@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Chumros
Regarding the issue brought up by Richard Wolpoe, and with Sukkos just around the corner, with people spending extra money for Mehadrin Arba Minim.
Does my obligation to give Tzedakah to a poor person include an obligation to enable him to do things leMaehadrin i.e. if he can get a Mehadrin Arba Minim at a price 50% higher than the cost of “only” a kosher Arba Minim, do I fulfill my obligation if I only give him enough for a non-Mehadrin Arba Minim?
Or, if Glatt, super-duper Hashkachah chickens costs 50% more than regular chickens, do I have to support his desire to be super Kosher?
I realize that in practice, there is rarely a case where the giver gives directly to the Ani, but, if for example, the Badatz Rabanim would come out with a Psak that a person subsisting on Tzedakah doesn’t need to buy Glatt chickens, then the burden on both the Aniim and the Tzibbur would be less.
In other words, does a person have a right to be Machmir, on someone else’s expense?
Benjie Gerstman
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:53:25 -0400
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Re: Avodah V2 #10 More on Chumro
RE: Chumro
I am just wondering if people REALLY wnat a chumro why not don Tefillin on Chol Hamoed (bli brocho) and make some sort of Tenai?
I hHappen to put on Tefillin based upon my family Minhig. I wonder about those who drop therir family minhog in favor of a shito they learn (EG goingt to Eretz Yosroel). I don’t see the logic of being meikil in this case. UNLESS, refraining from Tefillin is itself some kind of chjmro (kovod Yomtov)?
Now re: techeiles, we might see the light of day (makirr bein techeles lelovon <smile>). IMHO, one should follow their minhog. Of course, this newly found techeiles has little in the way of mesoro behind it, so how to apply this principle is quite tricky.
On a totally differnet holiday (gezeiro shovo 15 – 15) I disucssed the mitzov of lishmo with my Rebbe (Hoprov Yeruchem Gorelick) and machine Shemuor. I proposed that if we can rely on lishom to manufacture the thread for tsitsiz on a machine, that we can apply the same principle to mahcine shmuro. He concurred (as best as I recall). So there should be no problem of lishmo on machin shmuro IF one holds you can use a machine to manufacture lishmo threads for tsitsis.
Question: who first decided machines were ok for tsitisis? The answer to that might hold an indirect key to viewing the advent of techeiles bizom hazeh. That is to say, machines at one time had no mesora either.
The next issue might be tefillin derabbeinu Tam. A colleague at work insists they are a chiyuv. al pi his minhog, they might be. Al pi my minhog they might not.
Gmar Tov
Richard Wolpoe
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:14:39 EDT
From: EDTeitz@aol.com
Subject: t’cheyles and mesora
Question: who first decided machines were ok for tsitisis? The answer to that might hold an indirect key to viewing the advent of techeiles bizom hazeh. That is to say, machines at one time had no mesora either.
There is a difference between starting a NEW mesora and trying to reinvent a lost one.
The next issue might be tefillin derabbeinu Tam. A colleague at work insists they are a chiyuv. al pi his minhog, they might be. Al pi my minhog they might not.
The GR”A, it is told, remarked when asked about R. Tam’s t’fillin, “And what of the other shittos?” He calculated that there are, I think, 8 independent shittos relating to t’fillin, necessitating many pairs of t’fillin to satisfy all possibly permutations. Why chose one over all the others?
Eliyahu Teitz
