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Bottom Line
This thread begins with a Techeiles assumption that turns out to be questionable. Eli Linas wonders whether the name Rav Kruspadoi somehow means “Rabbi Purple,” but Yisrael Dubitsky points out that in Onkelos the related word kruspadai translates tzitzis, not Techeiles.
Dubitsky therefore suggests a different explanation: the name may be connected to unusual devotion to the mitzvah of tzitzis, similar to the name Ben Tzitzit. He also notes another possibility from Alexander Kohut: Kruspadai/Krispa may reflect the Greek name Crispus, meaning curly-haired.
The rest of the discussion broadens into a general point about names of Chazal: some seemingly unusual names may have originated as descriptive nicknames connected to a teaching, characteristic, or physical trait rather than being ordinary birth names.
Bottom line: there is little support in this thread for connecting Rav Kruspadoi specifically with Techeiles or purple dye. The stronger linguistic connection is to tzitzis generally, while an alternative explanation connects the name to the Greek Crispus. For Blue Fringes, this is mainly a useful philological caution against reading a Techeiles reference into the name simply because it sounds color-related.
Main Text
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:16:24 +0200
From: Eli Linas <linaseli@mail.netvision.net.il>
Subject: Techelles
Bs”d
Does anyone know why Rav Kruspadoi is thusly named? I have a suspicion that it wasn’t his real name. Rabbi Purple? I assume there’s a story behind it, but haven’t ever found anything.
Eli
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:42:53 -0500
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject: Re: Techelles
On Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 11:16:24PM +0200, Eli Linas wrote:
Does anyone know why Rav Kruspadoi is thusly named? I have a suspicion that it wasn’t his real name. Rabbi Purple? I assume there’s a story behind it, but haven’t ever found anything.
Why did you title this “techeiles” and not “argaman”? Anyway…
What about other suspicious names: Like Rav (great) always discussing things with R’ Zeira (small)?
Did R’ Simla’i make clothing?
It’s possible that kruspadoi, being a sign of royalty, actually was a name.
-mi
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:22:56 EST
From: Yzkd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Techelles
In a message dated 11/8/00 4:49:32pm EST, micha@aishdas.org writes:
What about other suspicious names: Like Rav (great) always discussing things with R’ Zeira (small)? Did R’ Simla’i make clothing? It’s possible that kruspadoi, being a sign of royalty, actually was a name.
There is a Sefer from R’ Reuvein Margoliyos in which he explains many of the names (WRT R’ Kruspidoee see Seder Hadoros).
Kol Tuv,
Yitzchok Zirkind
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:35:24 +0000
From: yidubitsky@JTSA.EDU
Subject: kruspadai
REL asks:
Does anyone know why Rav Kruspadoi is thusly named? I have a suspicion that it wasn’t his real name. Rabbi Purple? I assume there’s a story behind it, but haven’t ever found anything.
I’m not sure why one assumes kruspadoi is purple/techelles…the places in Onkelos that it appears (in BaM 15:38-39 and Dev 22:12) translates the word tsitsit, not tekhelet.
According to the Arukh, it is possible that he was so named because he was especially diligent WRT the mitsvah of tsitsit. Further, as there was an individual named “Ben Tsitsit” [e.g. Bereshit Rabbah 42:1; Gittin 56a; see the gemara there as to why he was so named but see my comments further] there is good reason to assume that Kruspadai is the translation of such.
In other places in Hazal his name appears as Krispa, Kruspa or some such, which suggests to A. Kohut that it was intended to mimic (?) the secular Greek name Crispus [funny how different threads of Avodah are so often intertwined!], meaning curly haired. Which might shed light on the physical description of our Amora in question.
Speaking of which, the gemara in Gittin explains the meaning of Ben Tsitsit’s name: it says “she-haytah tsitsato nigreret al gabei [karim u-]kesatot”. Rashi, in explaining the word tsitsato assumes it means his talit, the fringes of which shlepped on “cushions of fine fabric,” because, to quote Artscroll [Soncino, btw, explains it similarly], he was so rich that “he walked only on cushions fashioned from fine fabric.”
Ah, say I, that’s fine and good for Rashi to say but now that we know a Greek word which explains Kruspadai, which might have translated Ben Tsistit to begin with, one is tempted to explain the gemara’s explanation of the name differently. Namely, it was his long curly hair [= tsistit means fringes, sometimes of human hair; see Yehezkel 8:3], a style of the rich back then, that shlepped/draped over karim u-kesatot as he sat, not stood.
I wonder if my more learned chaverim know of rishonim/acharonim (I havent had time to look) who suggest such an alternative to Rashi’s?
I realize some may wonder what’s the nafka minah: perhaps none le-halakhah, but Torah hi (in its infinite beauty) u-lelomdah ani tsarikh. Oh boy, I feel a TuM/TIDE thread coming…
Ve-tehezenah einenu be-shuv le-Tsiyon ha-Mesameah Tsiyon be-vanehah,
Yisrael Dubitsky
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:33:42 -0500
From: “Gershon Dubin” <gdubin@loebandtroper.com>
Subject: Techelles
From: Eli Linas <linaseli@mail.netvision.net.il>
Does anyone know why Rav Kruspadoi is thusly named? I have a suspicion that it wasn’t his real name. Rabbi Purple? I assume there’s a story behind it, but haven’t ever found anything.
Check out Project Genesis’ Daf Yomi sheet for this week in which he addresses Rav Rehumi, Rav Zehumai, etc. Your question might fit right in!
Gershon
gdubin@loebandtroper.com
gershon.dubin@juno.com
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:20:59 -0500
From: “Wolpoe, Richard” <richard_wolpoe@ibi.com>
Subject: RE: Techelles
From: Eli Linas <linaseli@mail.netvision.net.il>
Does anyone know why Rav Kruspadoi is thusly named? I have a suspicion that it wasn’t his real name. Rabbi Purple? I assume there’s a story behind it, but haven’t ever found anything.
Gershon <gershon.dubin@juno.com>:
Check out Project Genesis’ Daf Yomi sheet for this week in which he addresses Rav Rehumi, Rav Zehumai, etc. Your question might fit right in!
And in pashas Vo’eschanan we have the Rav named after this week’s Sedra: Rav Lech (Lach)! (Dev. 3:27)
Shalom and Regards,
Rich Wolpoe
Richard_Wolpoe@ibi.com
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:04:01 -0500
From: “Gershon Dubin” <gdubin@loebandtroper.com>
Subject: RE: Techelles
Sorry, it was Ohr Someach’s Daf List.
Here it is:
Making a Name for Himself
If one hears another Jew make a vow to be a nazir in the event that a son is born to him and he declares “Me too,” there is a question raised as to his intention. On the one hand we can interpret his statement as a vow that he too will be a nazir if a son is born to himself. Alternatively, there is the possibility that what he really meant was that he too will be a nazir if a son is born to his friend, and the “me too” was a declaration that we will love that son as much as his father does and therefore will express his gratitude to Heaven in the same manner by assuming nezirut.
This unresolved question is presented in our gemara by a sage names Ben Rachumi whose name appears nowhere else in the Talmud. An interesting observation is made by Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Chayot about sages who made such solo appearances. These sages became so identified with their single statement that they were called by a name referring to it.
One example is Rabbi Yitzchak Migdalah who explains the mishna (Mesechta Bava Metzia 25a) which rules that if one finds three coins placed one upon the other he must assume that they did not fall from their owner in such fashion and were abandoned, but rather were placed there and forgotten, a situation requiring the finder to announce his find. This is only true, says this sage, if the coins are found in the pyramid pattern of a tower, with each coin lying on one broader than itself. Since he used the model of a “migdal,” Hebrew for tower, to make his point, he was subsequently referred to as Rabbi Yitzchak Migdalah.
Another example is Rabbi Zuhamoi (Mesechta Berachot 53b), who made a solo statement that one whose hands are greasy from eating is ineligible to say the birkat hamazon after a meal. Since he used the term “mezuham,” Hebrew for greasy, he was thereafter known as Rabbi Zuhamoi.
In the same manner, our gemara’s question regarding a vow for nezirut which might be interpreted as “love for the son,” the sage who presented this question was called Ben Rachumi which means a “son who is loved.”
Gershon
gdubin@loebandtroper.com
gershon.dubin@juno.com