Debate Responses
Agree Response
Actually, remnants of Murex dyeing are found in precisely the same places that תכלת was produced. [83]
Cyprus – איי אלישה
Yechezkel ) כז:ז ( states: תְּכֵלֶת וְּאַרְּגָמָן מֵאִּיֵי אֱלִּישָה הָיָה מְּכַׁסֵּךְ – “Techeiles and Argaman from the Isles of Elisha covered you…” The Targum translates “ ”אִּיֵי אֱלִּישָה as “Italia” – Italy [84]. Italy is considered one of the original major production areas for Murex dye [85].
According to the מדרש רבה the place called איי אלישה does not refer to Italy [86]. It is possible that it refers to the island of Cyprus [87]. Much archeological evidence exists for Murex dye production in Cyprus as well, and mounds containing tens of thousands of ancient murex shells have been found at various sites on its shores. [88]
מצור ועד חיפה – The coastline from Tyre to Haifa
זְּבוּלֻן לְּחוֹף יַׁמִּים יִּשְּכֹן וְּהוּא לְּחוֹף אֳנִּיֹת וְּיַׁרְּכָת ו עַׁל צִּידֹן )בראשית מט יג(
“Zevulun will dwell on the seashores. He will be at the harbors, and his border will reach near Sidon.”
The Gemara in Shabbos tells us that the dyeing industry for חלזון in ארץ ישראל was between 89 סולמות של צור and .חיפה
שבת )כו.( “וּמִּדַׁלוֹת הָאָרֶץ הִּשְּאִּיר נְּבוּזַׁרְּאֲדָן רב טַׁבָחִּים לְּכֹרְּמִּים וּלְּיֹגְּבִּים )ירמיהו נב( … יוגבים – אלו ציידי חלזון, מסולמות של צור ועד חיפה.”
“Nevuzaradan, the chief executioner, left of the poorest of the land to be Kormim and Yogvim. Yogvim – These are the trappers of חלזון , from the ladders of Tyre until Haifa”.
This area of the coastline in the north of Eretz Yisrael, is associated with the portion of Zevulun [90], whom the Gemara tells us were exclusively involved in the industry of :תכלת
מגילה )ו.( “וּשְּׂפֻנֵי טְּמוּנֵי חוֹל )דברים לג( – תני רב יוסף: שפני – זה חלזון, טמוני – זו טרית, חול – זו זכוכית לבנה. אמר לפניו: רבונו של עולם מי מודיעני? אמר לו: שם יזבחו זבחי צדק, סימן זה יהא לך: כל הנוטל ממך בלא דמים – אינו מועיל בפרקמטיא שלו כלום.”
“And the hidden things in the sand – Rav Yosef taught: ‘the hidden things’ refers to חלזון … [Zevulun] said before Him: Master of the Universe, who will inform me [if anyone tries to steal]? He said [to Zevulun]: there they shall offer sacrifices of righteousness – This will be a sign to you: anyone that takes from you without payment will not benefit from his trade at all.”
These areas are also known historically as the primary places for dyeing Murex:
“In Asia the best purple is that of Tyre…[91]”.
“We next come to the city of Tyre… At the present day, all her fame is confined to the production of the murex and the purple.”[92]
Huge mounds of murex shells have been found along the coast of northern Israel and Tyre in Lebanon (precisely where Chazal describe). The shells are broken precisely where one would do so to extract the dye, and are alongside what appears to have been ancient dye works. Even today, these are among the specific places for obtaining Murex snails, just as in the times of Chazal.
“TYRE – Murex shells were found here in 1793 and in 1811 M. trunculus were found by Lord Valentin. Along the coast, the Irishman Dr. Wilde in 1839‐40 found round pits cut into the sandstone which contained broken M. trunculus in breccia as well as heaps of murex‐shell breccia. … Chehab noted a Roman deposit of crushed murex from within the industrial quarter of the city and with a Byzantine dye shop above.
It is therefore worth noting the M. brandaris on the coins of Tyre from 112 A.D. and later. There is textual evidence for the imperial manufacture of purple here during the reign of Diocletian (before 300 A.D) (Eusebius, Hist Eccles. vii, 32) and in 383 A.D. the production became a state monopoly (Codex Justinianus iv. 40.1)…” [93]
Haifa is also known for its ancient dye-works, and evidence of dye production has been found in Tel Shikmona (adjacent to Haifa) as well as many other coastal cities in northern Israel. Below is a small sampling of dozens of sites described by researchers:
“Glass production and dye-making from marine snails were the city’s [Haifa] most lucrative industries.” [94]
“Tel Shiqmona – Numerous M. trunculus and M. brandaris were found on the tell… Complete and broken shells of all three species were found in undatable contexts about half a km south of the tell …”[95]
“A special find was the remains of purple-colored sediment on large jar fragments. This appears to be a rare case of purple dye (Tyrian purple) preservation, since hundreds of murex shells were discovered during the excavations. Most probably the economy of the settlement was based on the knowledge and expertise in producing this highly prized and expensive dye.”[96]
The Yaavetz (1698-1776) also noted this parallel between Chazal and the historical record, regarding the two places in Eretz Yisrael where dyeing of תכלת took place:
“ובענין צידת חלזון אמרו בפרק ב״מ, ולכורמים וליוגבים תני ר”י: יוגבים אלו, צידי חלזון מסולמא דצור עד חיפה, וכדבר הזה ממש כתבו גם סופרי או”ה כותבי ישובי המדינות והנמצא בה לצורך העולם. וזכרו שלא נמצא במקום אחר הדג שצובעין בדמו תכלת כי אם בין שני המקומות הללו.” [97]
“As far as trapping the Chilazon, [Chazal] said, “Yogvim – These are the trappers of the Chilazon from Sulma D’Tzor until Haifa”. This description is exactly what the writers of the nations, who recorded the settlements of countries and what can be found in them, mention: that there is no other place where you can find the fish for dyeing תכלת except between these two places.”
Footnotes:
83. Regarding archaeological proofs, Chazal and the Rishonim already relied on such finds to decide practical halacha. For example, in Bava Batra 24a Rav Becha saw genuine tzitzit in Mattai Midbar and was told, “You need two threads on the right and two on the left.” The Sefer Samag (§22) even reports a letter sent from Eretz Yisrael saying that an island fell on Yechezkel’s kever, where they discovered very ancient tefillin “just like our Rav Moshe and Rashi describe.” Maharil (Responsa §137v) rules that one needn’t be machmir to lay tefillin with the Torah’s strictest weights—because “we rely on what the Samag wrote about Yechezkel’s tomb.” The Beit Yosef (Orach Chayim §34) brings this down as halacha for pidyon haben (Teshuvot Shibatz 3:312). Ramban (Shmot 30:13) famously disputes Rashi’s identification of the “shekel of the Torah,” but in a later letter from Akko he tells his son that he saw an authentic ancient silver coin weighed on local scales, which proved Rashi’s measure perfectly (and so does the Abravanel at Shmot 30). So nu—we’re not claiming this proves they ruled this way all along; rather, it shows that whenever genuine finds appeared, our Sages didn’t ignore them.
84. Masoretic reading (Gen. 49:13):
“t’khala v’argona m’medinat Italia hut kasoteich”
“Italia” here is listed as part of Yavan. Megillah 6b records Ulla saying, “Italia of Greece is a large province of Rome.”
85. Reese, 2005.
86. The Greek term “Alashiya” was often rendered “Els,” and “Kitim” as “Atalia,” proving that Alashiya ≠ Italia. Genesis Rabbah (Aleppo ed., Parashat Noach 37) lists “the sons of Yavan: Elisha, Tarshish, Kitim, and Dodanim—which is Els, Tarsus, Italy, and Dadan.” (Note that the Vilna printing muddled some place‑names; see Ramban’s Ga’ulat Yisrael, p. 24.)
87. The Amarna letters also confirm the ancient name Alashiya—see Douglas 1972; Sayce, Ancient History 1928; Goren, Bunimovitz, Finkelstein & Naʽaman 1993; Knapp 1997.
88. Reese 2008:
CYPRUS – Hala Sultan Tekke – At this south‑coast site, Area 8 yielded huge quantities of crushed Murex trunculus shells in lime floors (1972), then again in 1977, 1980 (c. 60 fragments in Room 13), and—most striking—in 1981, Room 34 South, Layer 5 (LC IIIA2): 1,154 fragments (208 MNI). Courtyards and other rooms in Area 8 also produced mounds of broken murex… and further 1990 digs at 6–7 m depth in well F1750 turned up over 200 more fragments.
Videos
Footnotes
89. Encyclopaedia Judaica, s.v. “Tyre, Ladder of” (סֻלַּם צוֹר):
A steeply cut stairway connecting Acre’s territory with Tyre’s, part of the coastal road crossing Rosh ha‑Nikrah and Rosh ha‑Lavan, straddling today’s Israel–Lebanon border.
90. On Zebulun’s borders:
Gen. 49:13—“Zebulun shall dwell at the shore of the sea… his border shall be unto Zidon.” Rashi, Rabbeinu Bachya, Chizkuni, Radak, Sefer Yuchasin and the Pesikta Zutrata all explain that Zebulun’s tract ran along the Mediterranean from Acre up past Haifa almost to Tyre, fitting the description “shore of ships.” Targum Yonatan similarly notes that from the Great Sea they gathered chilazon for techeiles.
91. Pliny the Elder, Natural History, Book IX, Chapters 60–65.
92. Pliny the Elder, Natural History, Book V, Chapter 17.
93. Reese 2008 (with thanks to Rabbi Tsvi Rogin for coin photographs).
94. The City of Haifa: Historical Perspective, The Haifa Foundation.
95. Reese 2008; cf. also his catalogue of dye‑vats and shell‑mounds found at Acre, Mt. Carmel, Capernaum, and elsewhere.
96. Eisenberg & Bar, 2012.
97. Yabe’atz (Metafachat Sfarim 4): his phrase “between these two places” refers strictly to Eretz Yisrael—he isn’t talking about other lands. He raises this challenge to the Zohar’s simple statement (Terumah 145) that the chilazon lived in the Sea of Galilee, pointing out that evidence shows it was in the Great Sea between Tyre and Haifa, not Tiberias’ lake.
98. We find that Pliny generally makes a difference between the colours of the “murex,” or “conchylium,” and those of the “purpura,” or “purple.” He seems to employ the term “murex” for the Murex Trunculus that produces “conchylium” – blue, and the term Purpura for Murex Brandaris and/or Purpura Haemastoma that produced red-purple. In other places where murex is not the direct subject of discussion, he uses either of the two terms for the general family of Purpurae (See Book IX Ch. 25. And Book XXII Ch 3).
Item
Midrashic use of nignaz refers to royal monopolization, not metaphysical concealment. History shows snail-based dyes remained known in the non-Jewish world until the fall of Constantinople in 1453. Tekheiles disappeared from Jewish use due to persecution, not divine erasure.
Source: “On History, Mesorah, and Nignaz,” pp. 18–24
Chilazon identification lacks historical proof; it is "not found today."
– Numerous Rishonim (e.g., Ramban, Ra’avyah) and archaeological findings identify Murex as the Chilazon. (Rabbi Tavger)
– Chazal’s descriptions align with Murex-based industries historically located in Zevulun’s territory (Rabbis Tavger, Barkin).
– Ramban explicitly states the Chilazon was present in his time, refuting claims of its absence today (Rabbi Tavger).
Item
Incorrect. Rav Elyashiv cites the ישועות מלכו , who says that “פשט לשון הספרי ” is “ משמע ” that it’s נגנז . But if we have a ראיה that we found Techeiles then of course we should wear it. Furthermore, we see clearly from the Rishonim and Acharonim (מהרי”ל לבוש עולת תמיד חמדת שלמה ועוד הרבה ) that תכלת can actually be found before משיח comes. In any other Halachic question, the authority of the Mahari”l and so many Gedolei Acharonim that predated the Aruch Hashulchan by far, would not be taken so lightly. It is also worth mentioning here a quote Rabbi Reisman’s handwritten notes on techeiles: ובזאת התחלתי, שאין לנו שום מסורה המעידה שהחלזון לא יחזיר עד ימות המשיח, והראשונים שדברו מהא שהחלזון והתכלת אין ידוע לנו, לא הזכירו שלעתיד לא יחזור, ופשוט שמצד ההלכה אין לדיין אלא מה שעיניו רואות. ואם יתברר לנו איזהו החלזון, ודאי נחזור לקיום מצות תכלת בשמחה רבה. ובספר שפוני טמוני חול )עמוד 11-1( הוכיח כן ב טטו”ד





