Debate Responses
Agree Response
Actually, Rashi writes that it’s Limtza. Limace in old French means snail. We also see how in Italian, the word Lumaca today means a snail. And in French today, Limacon means cochlea, meaning snail.
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Limace means a slug, not a snail. A slug is a Tolaas. Once you decide to add a shell, you’re already creating a Frankenstein creature. Furthermore, Rashi only wrote Limtza in places that have nothing to do with Techeiles and also used other words and creatures for Chilazon, so the Chilazon HaTecheiles cannot be a snail. Chilazon is moreso a super category of creatures where a snail may be one of them. But the murex snail was used for purple and not blue, so we must be talking about another creature called Chilazon!
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Tolaas actually is a parent creature for other animals. Tolaas literally means a worm, but this “worm” also covers snails and moths. Rashi’s commentary was never meant to be used as a dictionary of terms, and would only describe words in old French when it applied to the relevant topic.
While Rashi wasn’t a dictionary, others have translated Limtza as a Shablul.
Radak for one (Sefer HaShorashim letter ח) translates Chomet as a Limsa.
Rabbeinu Gershom in turn translates Tolaas as a Limetz.
As for Tolaas meaning more than one thing, in Chulin 85b we see Rashi identifying a Tolaas as a “Taiina,” which in Laazei Rashi translates as an “Ahsh,” or moth. Is it a worm, snail, or moth? In the case of a moth, in its larva like state it resembles a worm (see pics) when starting to burrow into people’s clothing.
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But Chilazon means other creatures. Look at the following places:
רש”י בכורות לח. – Rashi Bechoros 38a translates it as a sickness known as Limon, which Laazei Rashi translates as slime.
משקדי חלזוני (Rashi, Avoda Zara 28b) – Rashi translates it as Nimin, which while we don’t know what it means, is not Limtza.
So there are two translations for Chilazon that’s not a snail. Case closed!
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The Gemara went through a series of misprints over the centuries that went unchecked, and Laazei Rashi was one of the main victims since many don’t care to understand old French when a local translation is readily available. But to the above examples:
רש”י בכורות לח. – Rashi Bechoros 38a translates it as a sickness known as Limetz and not Limon. It talks about a cow having a blemish in its eye the shape of something, one of which is the shape of a snail. We see this in an earlier Ksav Yad manuscript, and this actually works much better since the sefer Laazei Rashi (page 59) leaves this misprint as a question mark.
משקדי חלזוני (Rashi, Avoda Zara 28b) – Rashi translates it as Limetz and not Nimin, which we have in a different Ksav Yad manuscript. In fact, the sefer Laazei Rashi concedes to the Girsa of Limetz that it’s “closer to the truth.”
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“…בברייתא ‘ברייתו דומה לדג’… ומ״מ ברש״י מקומות שחלזון ‘תולעת’…”
English: “The beraisa: its form resembles a fish. But in some Rashis the Chilazon is called a worm — this needs reconciliation.”
📖 Source: חלזון התכלת במשנת הראשונים, סימן ג
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“…‘דג’ לעתים שם מין כללי לכל שבים; ניתן ליישב ‘דג/דומה לדג’ עם לשונות שנראות ‘תולעת’.”
English: “‘Fish’ can be a generic term for sea creatures. Both ‘fish-like’ and ‘worm-like’ expressions can apply without contradiction.”
📖 Source: תגובה לקונטרס לחלזון במשנת הראשונים, עמ’ 7












