Techeiles Differences Between Ptil, Chabura, and Valles



Techeiles Differences Between Ptil, Chabura, and Valles

Techeiles Differences Between Ptil, Chabura, and Valles 150 150 rhecht
Q:
1) Is Techeiles Chabura (chabureh?) Techeiles supposed to be lighter in shade than Ptil Tekhelet? I have a set which I bought last year and I noticed that the the color is much closer to sky blue, as opposed to my Tallis Gadol strings (Ptil Tekhelet) which are much closer to indigo colored. If it’s not supposed to be lighter, does that mean my Techeiles is fading? Isn’t there supposed to be a rule against that?
2) Besides for Ptil Tekhelet and Chabura, I saw an ad for something call Techeiles Valles. Who are these people, and what is the source of their dye? I see that they carry an Eida HaChareidis hechsher, but their letter doesn’t seem to cover the color, it just mentions the strings. Finally, do they sell these in Israel and how much do they cost?
Thanks!
A: a) The Techeiles Chabura (Toporovich) makes Techeiles from the same snails ?, though theirs is sourced from Greece (as opposed to Spain and Croatia where Ptil sources their dye from) and they supposedly do some different things, like using fresh snails and only using murex trunculus (whether or not Ptil also uses murex branderis isn’t certain, but at any rate murex snail based blue is kosher). Also, the fact that one group is more “Yeshivish” appeals to a certain crowd (though I personally never saw a snail with a black hat – though those exist in California [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexaplex_nigritus]).
b) Valles is a name brand in Israel of Tzitzis wool that sells for more money. Their strings are much thicker and they supposedly do various Hiddurim that regular Tzitzis don’t have, hence the hechsher. The dye though with Valles is sourced from the murex trunculus by both Toporovich. Ptil used to as well but stopped for their own internal reasons.
From Joel Guberman:

Background on Wallis/Valles tzitzis:   1.  The main halachik issue is Machine vs. Hand.   This issue is the same as in Matzah.  Both require Lishma and with that is the issue of “coach gavra”.   2.  After that there exists many different Hiddurim.  3.  Today all “Hand Made” tzitzis in the market are made by a spinning machine which has a hand crank replacing a motor that in turn spins several gears that in turn spin string.   This method receives the Hechsher of Badatz Eidah Chareidis of Yerushalayim as well as others.  4. The wool that is fed into these machines come in rolls that are organized as thin strips (Leshonos/furgon).  At some point one of the manufacturers of tzitzis convinced Rav Bransdorfer that these Leshonos need to be made Lishma as they are already like “spun strings”.   This “chumra” is VERY questionable, not only for the way it creeped into the achronim but more importantly in reality, as one cannot make any garment from these thin “Leshonos” and one will be hard pressed to define the difference between these “thinner” Leshonos and the thicker ones from which “Leshonos/furgon” is manufactured and is NOT made Lishma.
Wallis is a family name that is synonymous with quality mehadrin tzitzis.  It is a “brand” name that also carries with it certain chumrot.   There exist three main “Wallis” tzitzis makers in Yerushalayim all owned by a member of the Wallis family.  The Largest manufacturer is MOSHE WALLIS (Package above is his)  He has a machine similar to all other hand made tzitzis.  HOWEVER, his claim to fame is that he has made an adaptation to the machine which spins his strings making it considered TRUE “coach cocho”.   He has managed to have one belt go around all of the gears such that when someone spins the tzitzis it is spun “directly” by the belt that the spinner turns and several gear steps between the spinner and the machine.

The next largest Wallis manufacturer is “Wallis Mekori” owned by Yisrael Asher Wallis.  He does not use a machine to spin but rather either a spinning wheel or a “drop spindle” in the oylem today refered to as “pelech”.

The next largest Wallis manufacturer is Simcha Krashinsky in Matasdorf (a son in law of Wallis)  He does mostly spinning with a hand spinning wheel but also drop spindle.   (He spun the first lishma murex techeiles in our times.  This was dyed by Rav Eliyahu Tavger several years before Amutat Ptil Techeilet was formed.  Ptil Techeilet also used Simcha Krashinsky for its first pairs as we learned from Rav Tavger.  At that time we dyed wool which was then hand spun into strings.  We dyed wool mainly because the amounts were to small to dye strings…. ) R. Simcha is VERY talented and managed to spin the first Rambam strings by hand which is no small feat.

Like many of the other manufacturers of Hand tzitzis.  All of the Wallis “manufacturers” also make Niputz Lishma (That means that from the combing of the wool the process is done lishma)  Here to there are differences.   Both R. Simcha and R. Yisrael Asher (Wallis Mekori) use direct hand methods of Niputz.  This is done either by combs, or “nails” or with a simple direct crank drum with combs.

They sell them in Lakewood here (https://www.techeiles.org/shopping-cart-contact/). The above said, with the Chabura and Valles you need to do your own tying (lots of great options here https://bluefringes.com/string-tying-styles-2/) but Ptil does it as a packaged deal (https://store.tekhelet.com/?mobile=0), making them an ideal option.


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